Last night, I continued the discussion of the Town Board's use of executive session with questions raised by the article on the golf course auction in the March 23rd issue of the Dryden Courier. I gave the Town Board an excerpt with questions.
I've put the full transcript of this discussion, which includes questions from the audience and lots of information about the town's decision-making process and outlook on the Lakeview Golf Course auction, in the extended entry. Right now, I'd like to focus on this excerpt:
Simon St.Laurent: Did the Town Board authorize you to tell your client what they were going to bid?
Town Attorney Mahlon Perkins: Did they?
Simon St.Laurent: Yes.
Mahlon Perkins: No.
Simon St.Laurent: That was my question. Thank you.
Mahlon Perkins: How does that fix the bid?
Simon St.Laurent: It doesn't fix it. It's just that your client says that you told him, which seems an odd matter in an auction like this.
Mahlon Perkins: I think it's public knowledge.
Simon St.Laurent: It was not public knowledge. I certainly knew nothing about $360,000. I've not seen that number published, I've not seen that number in minutes.
Mahlon Perkins: I think it was public knowledge around.
Simon St.Laurent: It might have been scuttlebutt. It wasn't public knowledge.
Mahlon Perkins: I can't comment on... my client actually gave the town more information than any other bidder, so that they could make an informed decision.
Simon St.Laurent: That's very generous of your client. My question is whether the Town Board was interested in extending the same generosity to your client that your client offered to the Town. I don't see a sign that they did. And that makes me wonder whether your participation at executive session was appropriate. Information from executive session is supposed to be...
Mahlon Perkins: They can invite anybody they want to executive session.
Simon St.Laurent: Is information from the executive session supposed to leave the executive session? That's a big question. Why do we have these executive sessions in the first place is a question I've brought up repeatedly in the matter.
To summarize: Perkins saw no problem in telling his client the amount the town was going to bid, because he felt that it was public knowledge. On what basis, he doesn't say. It doesn't seem like that number should appropriately have been been made public knowledge before the auction. That attitude directly undermines the idea that executive session is intended for the discussion of issues - like prices to be paid for real estate - that should not be public because they might otherwise reach the ears of competitors for a purchase.
The town didn't lose any money because of this, because they didn't bid. However, the Town Board would do well to address this precedent before it costs the Town money in other transactions.
Also, Mike Hattery described the article as hearsay, and Tony Hall later said that he felt he'd gotten his article "backwards", but that doesn't change any of the above conversation or Attorney Perkins' conversation with his client. There's more detail at the end of the full transcript below.
Full transcript of golf course conversation at the April Town Board meeting:
Simon St.Laurent: I'd like to read a brief bit of the March 23rd Dryden Courier into the record, and ask the board a few quick questions about it. If you wait until I'm done, it's probably easiest, and if anybody wants the whole thing, I have a few copies of the Courier with me.
[George Szlasa, who was foreclosing on the golf course,] was stunned the town did not make a bid, he said, because he knew exactly what the supervisor was authorized to bid.
"My attorney told me," he said.
Szlasa's attorney and the town's attorney are the same man, Mahlon Perkins, whose own house overlooks the golf course, sharing the same magnificent view of Dryden Lake with Hammond Hill in the background.
Perkins is out of town this week, but Trumbull said, "he's legal. He really is. A lot of people have asked about it."
Trumbull said questions have come up regarding Perkins' role, but nothing appeared compromised. Perkins, he said, attended executive sessions in which the purchase price was discussed, but had recused himself from participation.
So, the questions.
If Town Attorney Mahlon Perkins recused himself from this sale, what legal counsel did the town retain to advise it, and why was Perkins in the room for this discussion?
And then, What steps does the Board plan to take now to ensure that information which is supposed to be shared with the public is public, and information that is supposed to be confidential, executive session, remains confidential?
[Handing out copies of the Courier.]
Steve Trumbull: Any other comments?
Joe Osmeloski: Will you answer questions?
Steve Trumbull: Sure.
Joe Osmeloski: What was the highest figure the town was authorized to spend on the golf course?
Steve Trumbull: $360,000.
Joe Osmeloski: Why didn't the town bid on the golf course?
Steve Trumbull: Why?
Joe Osmeloski: Yeah.
Steve Trumbull: First of all, I was the guy who was authorized to bid. I was given authority to bid, but it was up to my discretion. I thought it would be like a normal bidding process but now I find out that's not the case. We have... our attitude for the last several months has been that we would like somebody private to come in and invest. We would support them. If you analyze $360,000 public dollars for all the stuff we'd have to do, to renovate, fix things up, it's taxpayer money, we're building a new town hall, and I just didn't think it was the right thing to do.
Sarah Osmeloski: I have a question.
Steve Trumbull: Yes.
Sarah Osmeloski: What is the town board doing now to ensure the preservation of that property? I mean, if it's a housing development, it's going to make a big mess over there.
Steve Trumbull: Well, it's zoned residential. I don't think you can stop it.
Sarah Osmeloski: So the Town Board is going to accept that.
Steve Trumbull: We don't want to accept it, but right now, that's what it's zoned as. We got to go through a procedure, is that right Henry?
Henry Slater: Excuse me?
Steve Trumbull: To change the zoning of where the golf course is?
Henry Slater: From residential use? You would have to think about what effect it has on all our D zones, not just that specific situation. [inaudible]
Chris Michaels: We put out press releases saying that we're interested in working with a developer who is interested in buying the property and maintaining it as a golf course. We're not trying to be secret about it. That's our strong desire: as a town, we're not interested in holding a golf course. We're interested in seeing a golf course exist in the Town of Dryden. And if we can facilitate that, we're all for it. There are things we can do - we're evaluating development rights and things like that. Rights we can acquire, that can help with whatever financial issues there might be.
Joe Osmeloski: The Comprehensive Plan calls for approximately 150 acres of Dryden to have recreational land, and any time you're looking to bump it up - I think we have 50 acres - in the Comprehensive Plan now of recreational property, and you could get to 150 acres according to the Comprehensive Plan. And that's all going to cost money, correct? Buying a golf course, 70 acres, would obviously bump that up substantially if the town was interested in purchasing the golf course. In any venue you look at getting up to that 150 acre requirement - or not requirement, but recommendation from the Comprehensive Plan - it's going to cost money, just as the golf course cost money. Is the town just not interested in not having a golf course, and would have their recreation sites on something else?
Steve Trumbull: That's a possibility. It's a good idea to maybe spread out this land instead of concentrating it in one part of the township.
Mike Hattery: But I think we've kind of talked about this publicly a number of times, and as we said, short of actually purchasing and operating a golf course, we've taken a lot of initiative in this, and we publicly made clear that we would partner with a private party that was interested in purchasing and maintaining it as a golf course. I don't know; we could go back and forth a lot more on this, but we've made it clear for quite a while and we've taken a number of actions to try and facilitate that.
Steve Trumbull: It's not like we didn't spend the money to investigate this. We spent a lot of money and a lot of time.
Simon St.Laurent: Did you actually hire outside counsel to advise you on this?
Steve Trumbull: Yes.
Simon St.Laurent: Who was the counsel?
Steve Trumbull: Mark Wheeler.
Simon St.Laurent: Mark Wheeler.
Steve Trumbull: Right away, we hired him. Last January.
Simon St.Laurent: And, if I can reiterate my question, why was Mahlon Perkins in the room for this discussion if he had recused himself from the discussion.
Mahlon Perkins: I was invited.
Simon St.Laurent: You were invited.
Mahlon Perkins: By the Town Board. My client authorized me to tell the board exactly what he was going to bid. And the price that the town set was based on what my client was going to do, not on any other fact. My client decided what to bid because that's what the judgment of the Supreme Court awarded him. It's public record. If you had bothered to call me, I could have explained this to you rather than make a public spectacle of this thing.
Simon St.Laurent: Did the Town Board authorize you to tell your client what they were going to bid?
Mahlon Perkins: Did they?
Simon St.Laurent: Yes.
Mahlon Perkins: No.
Simon St.Laurent: That was my question. Thank you.
Mahlon Perkins: How does that fix the bid?
Simon St.Laurent: It doesn't fix it. It's just that your client says that you told him, which seems an odd matter in an auction like this.
Mahlon Perkins: I think it's public knowledge.
Simon St.Laurent: It was not public knowledge. I certainly knew nothing about $360,000. I've not seen that number published, I've not seen that number in minutes.
Mahlon Perkins: I think it was public knowledge around.
Simon St.Laurent: It might have been scuttlebutt. It wasn't public knowledge.
Mahlon Perkins: I can't comment on... my client actually gave the town more information than any other bidder, so that they could make an informed decision.
Simon St.Laurent: That's very generous of your client. My question is whether the Town Board was interested in extending the same generosity to your client that your client offered to the Town. I don't see a sign that they did. And that makes me wonder whether your participation at executive session was appropriate. Information from executive session is supposed to be...
Mahlon Perkins: They can invite anybody they want to executive session.
Simon St.Laurent: Is information from the executive session supposed to leave the executive session? That's a big question. Why do we have these executive sessions in the first place is a question I've brought up repeatedly in the matter.
Mike Hattery: What you basically have here is hearsay published in a local newspaper.
Simon St.Laurent: We have an interview with the client. Perhaps that sounds like..
Mike Hattery: Local newspaper.
Simon St.Laurent: Well, we've got Tony over there if you want to ask what kind of hearsay it was. I guess the question is, do you want to keep information in executive session private. If not, why hold the executive session in the first place?
[inaudible about moving on]
Simon St.Laurent: Okay. It'll come back.
Martha Robertson: I'd like to know the answer...
Tony Hall: I can be real quick about it.
Steve Trumbull: Okay.
Tony Hall: [inaudible] article about the presence of the course. What Mahlon is saying is that it's not his client figuring out what the town is doing, it's the town figuring out what his client is doing. It's backwards. The article is essentially backwards.
Simon St.Laurent: So you wrote the article backwards? Is that
Tony Hall: No, I didn't know it at the time.
Simon St.Laurent: Okay.
Joe Osmeloski: Was the article accurate in stating that any land purchases shouldn't be discussed in executive session?
Tony Hall: I don't think I said that. I wouldn't have.
Joe Osmeloski: That was indicated in the paper.
[inaudible]
Tony Hall: Thank you for your time.
Steve Trumbull: Okay.
Interesting -- the Osmeloskis and you and others on the attack, with Mahlon in the hot seat. Why is he still town attorney? Thanks.